This past Sunday, The Post-Star sat down with Mark Shapiro at Trappers' Restaurant at the new Great Escape Lodge & Indoor Water Park for a lengthy interview. After this interview was conducted, his wife Kim, and their 2 sons, Jack, 5 and Jeffrey, 2, crossed the new pedestrian bridge over Rt. 9 for a visit to The Great Escape.

Shapiro touches many subjects in this interview, and to date - this is the only public interview that Mark Shapiro has conducted, that specifically talks about the expansion of The Great Escape, and Six Flags as a whole concerning food prices, etc.

Here's the interview..

Q: What's your sense of how much this park will be able to grow?

A: You know, we do have places where we can expand.

We have older areas that we can update. You'd be surprised at how creative our company can be. We have some space, and any good business is constantly evaluating. What do we have that can use a tune-up? What do we have that can use a face-lift? What do we have that could stand to be moved out for something more exciting and popular? You know we have acreage, and others are selling their own acreage in and around the park. So is there opportunity? Yes. But I'd like to see us really determine our long-term expansion plan.

Q: You were in sports for a long time. Did you see yourself going back to something like that?

A: No. I love this. I'm just grateful for what's here, and I'm excited about it.

I love sports. I'm a fan. I'm a bigger fan now that I've left sports, but I did it for 12 years.

I'm ready to go back to games and view the games as I used to as a kid - you know, like with my kids, not thinking about the ratings.

Funny, I left a business where rain was great for my business - the rain kept people inside, and they watched more television - moving to a business where rain kills your business.

Q: How are you perceived? Does your age help you or hurt you?

A: I'm a very passionate person. I believe in putting both feet in everything you do. I have a lot of energy, and I'm inspired by what I do. I'm a fan of what I do. The day you stop loving what you do is the day you should do something else.

I don't think that age - certainly it was a factor when I achieved some success or a promotion when I was mid '20s - but I think now, I'm well past that. It's not a hindrance. It's not a benefit. It is what it is. I'm grateful for the opportunities that I've had, and I'm excited about the challenges that lie ahead.

Q: You've been In the Job about six months or so. What is your overall view of the amusement park Industry In general? How Is the Industry changing?

A: I think it's a healthy business because people have, no matter how limited it might be these days, people do have discretionary time, and they work hard to carve out disposable income that they can spend.

No matter how busy they are, parents want to get out with their children. They're not going to sit in the house every weekend, they're not going to sit in their house all summer long. They're going to get outside. Does that mean they can go hiking? Of course. Does that mean they can take a boat ride? Of course. Does that mean they can go fishing? Of course. But they're going to have several options. And because of that, I think the theme park will always have a strong foothold because it is a great diversion.

It is an experience if you do it right.

And not only does it provide fun and laughter, but it provides thrills. People come to a theme park, and they don't just laugh. Sometimes they're frightened to death. It brings out emotions in all of us, in one setting, in one period, that don't normally take place in one day, in one hour. That's a long time, I think it's a great value. You can spend 10 hours a day for one price.

I think it's a healthy business because people want to get away from the "every day". They want an escape. They want a diversion. They want to be entertained. They want to forget about their everyday troubles. And a theme park, especially Six Flags, is one of those places I believe is delivering on all of that.

Q: Six Flags has been struggling, though, due to past management decisions. Can you turn that around?

A: They (past management) bought parks that were overpriced, and then sunk a lot of money into the parks, and then couldn't understand why the return wasn't there. The return wasn't there because the parks were overpriced in the first place. Their profits were generated by cutting back on expenses. That's not how you grow a business. You grow profits by growing a business.

You make an investment, you want to reap a reward. And their idea of fixing a business or squeezing out profits was to cut back on expenses - cutting back on labor, cutting back on characters in the park, cutting back on service, cutting back on training, cutting back on appearance, cutting back on presentation, cutting back on all of those intangibles that I as a consumer look for when I enter a park.

When I go to a park with my kid I'm not getting on any (thrill) rides. I'm going on kids' rides. So for me, what would be at the top of my list? Well It sounds weird, but presentation. It's painting. It's landscaping. It's lighting. It's security. It’s cleanliness. Those intangibles are so vital, and what happened was, it was all being cut back. This is not the Six Flags of SIX months ago. It wasn't the Six Flags I grew up on. We don't have to be better than Disney. .

We don't have to be Disney.. We have to be a better alternative to Disney.

Q: But It raises your costs, obviously.

A: That's my point. I don't know how deep we can go, but we have to jump into it.

You can hire better leaders, more people. You can make a big difference.

Q: Do you like the Idea of the  lodge?

A: I love it. I love it. I fell in love with this place when I first arrived. I think it's a terrific blueprint for something we could do across the board as the years go on. We can't take a lot of risk on the investment right now. We're looking to de-leverage, not to add, but if we can get a partner who wants to come in, certainly. What do we bring to the table? We bring property. We bring land to the table. And we bring expertise ... but we're just looking for a partner that's going to assume some risk - or the lion's share - of the risk.

Q: Do you see a shift in family priorities, and do you think Sept. 11 contributed to the shift toward home entertainment?

A: I think 9/11 certainly had an Impact on any outdoor business and any entertainment destination because families want to stay home. They want to be close to home. They want to feel safe and secure. Many times, the best way to feel safe and secure is in your own environment. That's why I think places like this place - all of Six Flags - has a leg up on some of the competition because many of our parks aren't bigger than Disneyland but all of our parks are closer' to home, and that means a lot because you do have that security. And as we look to expand our park, I see our parks as much more than rides - much more than shows ... There is nothing off limits. The only thing holding us back is our own imagination.

In the past, management did not encourage you to create to imagine, to explore, for two' reasons. One, I don't believe that was their background.

They were bankers' they weren’t marketers. They didn't have an entertainment pedigree. And secondly, because of the company's balance sheet, it was more about squeezing expenses instead of taking the hit and growing the investment.

Because long term, you can grow the investment that same profit will be there but probably much, much more.

I walked into a company where some of the people were desperate. They were miserable, and they had sacrificed for too long, and they were just waiting for the sun to come up.

And I'm not saying the sun has arrived; it's still a little cloudy.

But I do believe the employees generally believe this management team cares about them and cares about their aspirations and their own growth and wants them to be creative. We solicit ideas. We solicit creativity.

Q: How much authority, control, personal involvement do you take as CEO?

A: There's a lot of responsibility on my shoulders. When it's raining in Lake George or cold in Lake George, and people aren't showing up, it's not just Scott's (Maupin) problem. It's my problem. I'm a very hands on CEO because I believe in getting my hands dirty. I want them to know my hearts into it and my blood, sweat and tears are into it the same way theirs is. It's a demanding job, as I believe any job is. I might have a lot of pressure, but I'm not working harder than anybody else. There's only so many hours in a day. I'm working them. You just have to divide up your time, and you have to delegate. You surround yourself with the right people, there is no limit to where you can go.

There's a lot going on looking at parks, reviewing performance, meeting with analysts, meeting with potential investors, meeting with potential advertisers, assessing our real estate progress on the portfolio on the land, .improving the service and performance of the company.

And then, of course, the employees and the morale - that they’re cared for and that we're putting out the proper incentive packages. You know, it doesn't stop. You have to shift, and you have to balance, and you have to be able at any time to throw everything out the window and change the schedule.

Q: Are you having trouble finding workers?

A: We do have a big base of returning people. We have people in the park who have worked there for 20-plus years. One thing that hasn't changed is the employment base. There's more competition, so there's no doubt that it's challenging. We've got a billboard up there (advertising job vacancies). We have to use a billboard, instead of promoting our services and our business, we're trying to hire people. As we move forward, you're going to see us hiring more full-time employees ... at the supervisory level. But the simple fact of the matter is, if we're going to deliver our first-class experience and service at these parks, we're going to need more full-time employees who are committed year-round to make Six Flags be what it should.

Q: What do you like most about your Job, and what do you dislike the most about It?

A: You're in a business of putting smiles on people's faces. That can't be all too bad.

What do I not like? I don't like a job where there are factors I can't control. I like to be able to control things in a sense, you have a problem or you're not getting results, and you can flip the switch and bring your expertise or your experience or your people to the table and figure out how to turn things around. I can't wave a magic wand and make the clouds go away. I can't wave a magic wand and make it 89 degrees today.

Q: You say you're going to make the park (Great Escape) bigger. Are you talking about buying up more land around here and maybe putting rides in other places?

A: I don't have any answers for you just yet. I just know I like what this park delivers, and I don't believe it ever really had a lot of that defined, in a sense, of really building up a variety of entertainment options. Don't get me wrong.

There's been a lot of money - $30 million - put into this park. So the investment is there. We're a big taxpayer here; 1,500 people is what we're employing -1,200 are seasonal and 300 are full-time. But, you know, I get up this morning to go jogging, and I ran by about 20 kids coming to work early in the morning. That's good for the community. That's good for the economy. It's good for business. It's good for the people that live here. So I think there's opportunity for expansion.

We actually have a meeting coming up in a couple of weeks - our first long-range planning meeting. They've never done a long-range planning meeting in this company. It's been year to year, and we're going to put together a five-year plan, which over the next couple of months, that really has a nice layout for the future of this place.

Q: Are you going to let us know what this plan is?

A: Yeah, when the time is right. Once we have something to announce. It's easy to say we're putting together a planning strategy. But until we put together something concrete, there's nothing to tell you. But no, we're not going to hide. I think that this management team is showing you our desire to open up those communication lines.

Look, it's not just the shareholders. It's not just our employees. The press shouldn't be the last to know. I have nothing to hide. We should be as transparent as we can possibly be. At the end of the day, if you believe you have a good relationship with us, we're going to let you know what's going on as it happens - you're going to write about it. Last time I checked, that's free publicity.

Q: Obviously, you've added characters. Is that the family way you're going or is there something else you're planning?

A: More family rides. We added a parade every day, as you know. We added characters. Rides everyone can enjoy.

That's the problem with roller coasters, and I love roller coasters, but not everybody goes on them. It's for a certain niche. Even if my son were tall enough, he won't go near it, and he won't go near it until he's 16 years old. When he gets to 16, he'll love them, and that's the number one ride he'll want. But we're too skewed. We'll have 60 rides in a certain park, and 50 will be for teenagers or above, and 10 will be for children. And that's not the correct balance to have.

We're going to be aggressive about putting spinning coasters in our parks in the years going forward. I love them. It's something everyone can ride. Our teenagers love the ride; parents love the ride. They can go with their children, and the kids love the ride. That's the panacea.

You want to get an entertainment that everyone can enjoy. You're not excluding anybody.

Characters aren't for the teenagers, yet we're finding more and more of our photo business is being driven by teenagers. (They want a) shot with Daffy Duck. So that's just crazy; 'cause I know it works.

When I walked into the hotel last night, and there's Daffy and Sylvester and Bugs in the lobby, and I see the line, the kids, to hug them. That's the strategy working right there.

They (previous management) didn't know about that strategy in the past.

Again, you have to build it for people to come.

Q: When you were talking about the family aspect, some people complain about the prices In the park - food and that sort of thing.

A: What I can tell you? While they might seem outrageous at times, I went to see "Over The Hedge" last week. I got two candies, a Coke and a small popcorn, and it was $31. I have a hard time believing we're so out of whack. We took our prices and went toe-to-toe with Disney. Every single item we offer, from hot dogs to pizza to Coke, and we're either right in line or we're within 50 cents of what Disney charges. And the difference is, we give you more. So when it comes to the competition in the market place, we're very competitive. I'm very, very sensitive to price gouging. In Chicago, we were charging $3.79 for a bottle of water, I took it down to $3. So not everything is being raised.

Things are being lowered; you just don't hear about it. I don't want any price gouging. You can't nickel-and-dime people.

You nickel-and-dime them, you get them once, and that's what they remember, and they don't come back.

And when you're talking about a season pass, you know for $50 or so you can come back as many times as you want all season long. Two visits pays for the pass. Where else can you go and get a day of entertainment - 10 hours, rides, shows, attractions, photos, characters, autographs, across the board something for the older ones, something for the younger ones, all the fun in between - for $20? That's what it is when you're doing a season pass.

Q: I need you to go back to what you were talking about with competing for families' time. I thought It was kind of Ironic that among the many supporters of Dan Snyder's takeover bid was (Microsoft founder) Bill Gates. I even heard some talk about Microsoft having a presence In Six Flags parks in the form of video gaming options In the future.

Some people were saying that, in the post-gill world, home entertainment became sort of a catchall for a lot of families. Do you see Six Flags competing with that? Do you see any Irony that kids may end up coming to the park to play the kind of games they have on their Xbox at home?

A: The answer is yes, I see us competing. I see us competing with everything. It's your Saturday. You can go to Borders bookstore. You can read. You can go to a movie theater. You can stay home and play video games with your kids. You can go on the slip-and-slide outside. You can go bowling. You can play putt-putt golf. You can go to a baseball game. I'm not trying to be cute; these are some of the decisions we make week to week. If I'm not traveling, I want to have fun with my kids. Right now, at the top of my list, is going to see the movie, "Cars."